Counter attack

[Valiant]

I just had a rather nice idea for making especially pkilling more interesting. Mainly it should provide a (partly) solution for the 'whoever begins, wins' concept.

So I came up with: the Counter Attack.
This would work as follows:

- A player may prepare (much like preparing for traps, maybe even the same command). While prepared, the player gains a considerable Armour Class bonus.

- If the prepared player is attacked, and the attacking player hits, nothing special happens.

- If the prepared player is attacked, and the attacking player misses (for which there is an increased chance), the prepared player has the opportunity (within 2 seconds or so) to deal a counter attack.

- Counter attack always hits, and is always a critical hit.

- Shields provide additional armour class when prepared, the shields' effectiveness doubles.

- Preparing can only be done before a fight. During a fight, preparing is not possible.

- Preparing can not be done right after moving into a new room. A 1 or 2 second timer should prevent this.

- Preparation only gives an AC bonus against the first attack made against him. If a second attack is made (either by the same or another enemy), the opportunity for a counter attack is lost.

- When a prepared player attacks, the preparation is ended.

- If both players are prepared before a fight will commence, the player that attacks will receive an attack bonus. The AC bonus of the defending player is halved. The attacking player also has a chance to avoid the counter attack (about 10%).


Effectively, this may make combat more interesting.

Opinions ?

[Ghandi]

Could be a great solution for pre-arranged fights, but i still have to see it to find out if it really works. Could be that the defending player now get a really big advantage. On the other hand, if the attacking player wields a weapon that almost never miss, like a bonebreaer +2, the advantage is gone already.

And how do you implement this with casters? With this system, an alchemist might think twice before he shall start with a weapon.

And what about special attacks like touch and wither since those should not be affected by AC.

But im curious how it would turn it out.

[Scorpion]

I totally disagree.

A CRIT HIT WHEN YOU COUNTER?
You crazy? Thought about stunning effect of crit (can go up to 6 sec... or even more).

Counter attack you can do, and most of them who do pkills regularly have counter attacks, but we call that macro's with 'kill kampfer;cast confuse kampfer'. If someone attacks, within 1 sec you pushed the button, so why need this valueble-coding-time-spending-idea?

If you are that scared of pkilling... just don't clan and accept duels.

And if you still want to start a fight, you should think of ways to start.
A few tricks: Hide yourself, walk around the place where you expect the fight and stand ready to attack. Offcourse there are more tricks, but hey, figure that out for yourself!

[Valiant]

A CRIT HIT WHEN YOU COUNTER?
You crazy? Thought about stunning effect of crit (can go up to 6 sec... or even more).

Striking a critical hit is the logical result, as the attacking enemy will be weakened. His failed attack gives the attacked player an opportunity to deal an extra powerful blow - a crit.

Counter attack you can do, and most of them who do pkills regularly have counter attacks, but we call that macro's with 'kill kampfer;cast confuse kampfer'. If someone attacks, within 1 sec you pushed the button, so why need this valueble-coding-time-spending-idea?

Firstly, not everyone uses an advanced MUD client. Those things cost money (although I doubt even half of the full version users have actually paid for it).
Secondly, what you are describing is the 'whoever begins, wins' scenario, which is exactly what my idea is trying to counter. I have to agree though that it wouldn't work if the attacking player is using an attack combined with a spell. Which gives me another idea: a 1 second timer so players (and npc's) can no longer attack and cast at the same time. Also kind of logical.

If you are that scared of pkilling... just don't clan and accept duels.

Unfortunately, my character (Valiant) demands that I accept duels from evil. But don't worry, others will just cower out of the combat .

And if you still want to start a fight, you should think of ways to start.
A few tricks: Hide yourself, walk around the place where you expect the fight and stand ready to attack. Offcourse there are more tricks, but hey, figure that out for yourself!

Again, exactly the scenario I want to undo.

Also, what I'm trying to do is bring more variation in combat, more possibilities. No more 'who presses his macros first', but a matter of actual skill.

[Scorpion]

People can still crit above 100 damage, which makes it scary to do pkill after all. Let's both prep and wait till the other desides to give up.

And there are free good clients, like portal and the oldest zmud version for example.

Whoever begins wins... well, not that true. I've seen and been in many pkilling where not the beginner won. and believe me, if you have the stun spell, pkilling is very easy. Just stun cast cast cast and you're dead. So if someone attacks someone and doesn't confuse that one.. the attacked one can stun him and voila, he wins.

I don't think there should be a change.

[Kampfer]

but we call that macro's with 'kill kampfer;cast confuse kampfer'. If someone attacks, ...

hahahhahahahahahahahahha

Those things cost money (although I doubt even half of the full version users have actually paid for it).

hehe against all hope.. I paid mine

and I must disagree with the counterattack.. simple.. everybody will just start to act like paranoid people and prepare each room and slow down the game/rp.. I think assassin itself (for your first counterattack example) is quite complete and well balanced.. its more the bounty/contract system which needs to be worked on

and for the other thing.. like "who press what when?" we will never be able to fix that.. its high and powerful characters vs high powerful characters.. even with the counterattack kampfer can still bring down Ghandi in 1sec "if all the elements are there" the skill of seeing the other first and pressing on macros first is quite hard.. and don't worry I know what i'm talking about

[Ghandi]

Kampfer's right.

A succeeded wither stuns the opponent. No counter attack there. Usually, the attacking player may first do kill (still used to use kill instead of hit. Hard to change that after using it for 4/5 years) followed by a cast. With your suggestiong that player will start with a bind....again, no counter attack there. So actually, you are only creating a disadvantage for barbarians, who might be able to circle, but they have the chances to fail that. So you're only forcing players to change their tactic a bit, but you don't take away the 'problem' you think there is.

And Kampfer also mentions the moment of who reacts first when players see eachother. I believe there should be more of non-arranged fights. It's only because Kampfer and Ghandi are clanned that they can attack eachother without using the duel system. That's make 'our' fights a lot more interesting and exciting. More is at stake, we got more to lose. But because the losses are not that high, we can live with defeat. Which makes me thinking. Pre-arranged fights are like western duels. The one who is the fastest to pull his gun and shoots, wins, unless he aims bad of course. Same with LoS fights. The person who uses his 'macro' or alias first, probably wins. But, the duel system has prevented a lot of outlaws. Ghandi once has been outlaw only because he showed his avalanche spell on the group he was with. The spell didnt fataly hurt anyone, that was not the attention at all, but still he became outlaw because the group big enough to reach outlaw status.

And creating a timer between attack and cast is something i disagree with. Why? Because i think that in one hand you can wield a weapon to strike with and with the other you can make your cast or at least prepare the cast.

And mud clients. If you want to discuss about the fairness about those, then you will conclude the game would be unfair, because the player that uses telnet will certainly has the disadvantage. That player has to type every line over and over again. During moments like fights, a typo or not can make the difference between defeat or living, while with an advanced mudclient, the line will remain in the inputbox and only pressing enter will be needed. Whether or not we paid for the mud client we use is not relevant, so why bringing up the issue. If you want to create a timer between attack and cast, you will make it only more difficult for telnet users or not advanced mud clients, creating a bigger gap with those who uses the advanced ones. They wont be able to use "k/h monster;c spell monster" anymore.

Basicly, I don't think anything should changed.

[Valiant]

Must admit, you people are right about lots of things.

Bind/Stun would blow the whole system of counter attacks. Monsters might indeed be a little harder with the timer between hitting and casting.

Oh well.
Heh, at least I got a discussion going, livening things up here a bit

[Kampfer]

and at least we see you still are around and not dead

[stoner]

there should be a defensive spell known as counter-spell, stopping any spell coming at a player (but costing variable rates depending on spell that is being blocked)
sry, i just now thought of it while i was here

[Hurk]

If this were to be coded into the game would anybody really want to attack another player????

[stoner]

hurk.....that was my point.

[stoner]

If this were to be coded into the game would anybody really want to attack another player????

but does a mage really have 65 mp to spare to stop a astral-blast from working?