What can my char see?

[Scorpion]

I think there's a difference between what a player can see and what a char can see.

I made a little list, wondering what you think about what a char can or cannot see. The yes or no is my thought on what my char should see.

- Someone's desc - Yes
- Someone's armour - Yes
- How much damage you did - Yes
- How much xp you got/gained - Yes
- How much % you have on certain weapon or magic realms - Yes

The above ones are not really that a problem, but the 2 below here is where my post is really about

- Someone's thoughts, like broademote thinks "bla" - No
- Someone's class - No

Your thoughts?

[Ghandi]

Until such a thing is implemented it would be nice if other players be aware of this. Other chars now already know what class you have, what your name is, even if they never met you before, which actually is really strange.

An idea to add with this is that you can set yourself what other players can see, but that you are limited in what you can set, depending on lvls and earned titles. The more you've done, overcome in the lands, the more famous you can make yourself. A lvl 16 player can already have done something great in the lands. He can now set for himself whether or not he wants to be famous or not (just imagine that local residents who heard about your achievements mention your name to others and that's how you become famous). Simply set whether or not achievements should be know or not, depends for every class of course. Mid high lvls can set their class and name. People at the lvl can already heard of you and know what you do cuz you've achieved some smaller great victories.

You can do more with the earned titles this way

How about npc in a market place for example gossip. When you are there, npc might tell little stuff about other players. But this might be more a rp achievement, but would make the world a lot more lively.

[Kampfer]

we already have the town criers telling stuff about some poeple in the land.. unfortunately he don't speak enough.. he could develop on this person (with the RP achievement is the player.. what he done...etc..) for example.. the crier says about kampfer "you 'should' fear him.. (wow.. actually people should not fear... but they HAVE TO fear maybe with times dms could add some meat around the bone, like kampfer is not only to fear but he possess powers beyond imagination for his class (or compare to other players.. (and here I'm talking about spells.. spells training.. weapons training.. his clan.. his crypt maybe.. his fortune (but now I think some people have more money .. etc..) same for Ghandi criers could talk about him.. about treasures he found.. what a indiana jones he made.. it could give some little information about some discovery maybe.. more clue leading to things (cause sometimes.. damn the job is so well done in the land that some clues are impossible (almost) to find... have to 'guess' or 'be lucky' and falling on it.

ok.. again everything I said is still related to RP

[Ghandi]

Just another rp element occured to me.

Only useful in towns and only for lvl <4 npcs. In combination of your status and alignment ppl will interact with you. For Kampfer will scream and yell in terror and wander (should actually be running or fleeing) away because they fear him and for Ghandi ppl will gather around him, meaning more ppl will come and cheer, celibrate by dancing and singing, flowerleaves fall gently down the sky and young beautiful maidens will throw flowers at him, begging him to marry them and marketmen offer him free food

[jagg]

Just another rp element occured to me.

Only useful in towns and only for lvl <4 npcs. In combination of your status and alignment ppl will interact with you. For Kampfer will scream and yell in terror and wander (should actually be running or fleeing) away because they fear him and for Ghandi ppl will gather around him, meaning more ppl will come and cheer, celibrate by dancing and singing, flowerleaves fall gently down the sky and young beautiful maidens will throw flowers at him, begging him to marry them and marketmen offer him free food

You can do all this with triggers and emotes of course. With a pattern that recognises a townsman as an example, emote something like "acknowledges the respectful nod from the townsman" etc etc... Emote can always be overused or abused, but if you keep it to the low level bods about town, I'm sure that would be alright.

[jagg]

I think there's a difference between what a player can see and what a char can see.

I made a little list, wondering what you think about what a char can or cannot see. The yes or no is my thought on what my char should see.

- Someone's desc - Yes
- Someone's armour - Yes

Definitely to both of these

- How much damage you did - Yes

Well, perhaps in general terms. Ranging from "weak" to "catastrophic", but not the actual number of hp

- How much xp you got/gained - Yes

Not sure about the justification for this? In general terms, you already know this from the level titles, and I'm not sure that knowing any more accurately than that is necessary. If a character's class was not readily apparent (taking into account the latter part of your post), perhaps similar titles that weren't related to a class could be implemented. Novice, explorer, veteran, legend...

- How much % you have on certain weapon or magic realms - Yes

Again the same comment as regards weapon damage. You can probably tell if a mage is wielding a realm that he's adept in, so general bands of damage would be appropriate in my book.

The above ones are not really that a problem, but the 2 below here is where my post is really about

- Someone's thoughts, like broademote thinks "bla" - No
- Someone's class - No

There is an element of telepathic communication in the game. It's how you can "tell" to people not in your location. It's slightly unrealistic that all classes can do this, and not just for example magic using classes, but it's necessary to make the game work. So... I think you could extend this to include broadcast thoughts. You could justify knowing people's class on similar grounds, although I do agree that it's useful for the shadier classes to be able to not reveal this information. Maybe they could appear as other classes?

[Ghandi]

Exactly...what is a stealthy thief if everyone knows he/she's a thief. The point of stealing is that nobody should know you did that. If there's a thief around and certain perms wont drop anything for some while, they ask the thief...and that should not happen.

As with assassin, the trick is like acting you're are just there and act like a friend, play cards with your 'target' and when you notice your target has losen his guard you strike. If everybody knows you are assassin, taking contracts is actually pretty useless. Point of contracts should be that the target should NOT know at all he has a bounty on his/her head.

I also think contracts should last longer and that the timer only decreases when both players are online.

[jagg]

Exactly...what is a stealthy thief if everyone knows he/she's a thief. The point of stealing is that nobody should know you did that. If there's a thief around and certain perms wont drop anything for some while, they ask the thief...and that should not happen.

Well... purely as an example, I've just been reading Magician's Apprentice. In this book there is a Thieves' Guild who people can get in touch with if they need their services. This might be paying protection or arranging for an item to be acquired. People know who the thieves are, at least to some extent (depending on social class really), or else how could they do business with them? This kind of organisation is more like the Mafia or other similar group. People know who's in it - it's important for the way that they function.

You're describing a solo thief, which doesn't fit so well into the "crime family" type of organisation. Perhaps they might use them as a conduit for the merchandise they acquire, and maintain anonymity by not having dealings with non-members. Even then though, wouldn't people ask themselves questions like "What does he do for a living?"... not much..."Where does he get all that gold from?"... seems suspicious as he's not got an honest job... and if he goes out at night a lot and wears leather rather than dressing all in black and carrying pointy implements, people will know he's a thief rather than an assassin

As with assassin, the trick is like acting you're are just there and act like a friend, play cards with your 'target' and when you notice your target has losen his guard you strike. If everybody knows you are assassin, taking contracts is actually pretty useless. Point of contracts should be that the target should NOT know at all he has a bounty on his head.

The most effective assassins in history have been traitors, but usually they only have a single big kill... If we're talking about a killer for hire, only the most exceptional job would require integration into the victim's social circle (now there would be a good high level challenge for an assassin!). After all, unless the assassin had some means of disguising themself, after the first time they do their dirty deed, who's going to associate with them ever again? Most of the time, I think we're talking about a quick knife in the back in a dark street.

I think knowing that a bounty is on a character is in there for game balance. Otherwise you could be sent to Limbo with no warning - there's just no chance for the victim. You'd feel pretty bad if you got slain like a bolt from the blue, wouldn't you?

[jagg]

How about...

Everyone begins as a general adventurer. Balanced hp/mp, weapon and spell ability. No special class abilities of course. (Barbarians might be an exception to this? Otherwise they could learn some spells, then become barbarians and that wouldn't make sense.)

You can join a particular guild whenever you wish (or perhaps only post level 5 perhaps, by completing the appropriate quest). This will change hp/mp per level, and rate of development of weapon and spell skills. Also required to learn the skills of each class (circling and so on)

Assassins and thieves can covertly join their respective guilds yet still appear as "adventurers". I wouldn't let them masquerade as any other specialised class, the rigorous training required wouldn't allow them sufficient time to properly pursue their hidden career simultaneously.

The way I see this is that adventurers would be good all round characters, and playable in their own right. However, specialisation would mean faster and greater development in particular areas depending on which guild was chosen. People might have suspicions about those who remain uncommitted, but there wouldn't be any proof...

I'm kind of thinking that people need some sort of reputation that could be looked up. Kind of a log of achievements over time. So for example a fighter's reputation might be "Joined the fighter's guild age 18, having proved his strength in battle according to the demands of the sword master", "Advanced to the rank of myrmidon after overcoming a great foe". This would represent what is generally known about a character and could represent an alternative to displaying class and level. What if it was available in taverns, representing gossip? Also available in areas like the academy in Coral, for the appropriate class. For those who have clearly chosen a particular path, this information should be readily available. Could also include achievements like quests and titles.

Thieves wouldn't have so much in their reputations as they aren't officially joining their guilds (perhaps a special reputation only visible to other guild members detailing secret guild achievements). Perhaps though as they acquire experience through thiefly acts, they could acquire shady comments in their reputation (1000 exp through pocket picking = "rumoured to make a not entirely honest living"). Assassins something similar, based on number of contracts fulfilled? This would be unavoidable, as the character's activities are unlikely to remain totally secret from the rest of the population.

Another idea - if a particular nefarious skill is carried out in front of other player characters, this speeds up the rate at which the reputation becomes tarnished. Get spotted attempting to pick a pocket a few times? Reputation includes "lightfingered" For those who wanted to play the kind of "solo" thief described by Ghandi, they would have to work hard to protect their reputation by keeping their activities unseen. Thieves who didn't mind being known for what they were could happily acquire checkered reputations, but then provide a ready point of contact for those who are in need of thiefly services. Lockpick for hire, kind of thing.

So if you happened to come across a lightly-armoured "adventurer" in the lands who seems to have been around for a while, it might be worth a trip to the tavern to buy a few drinks and see what's known about this person. Of course, they'll deny everything...

Lot of work to do for the DMs, even if by some miracle everyone was in total agreement as to how brilliant my ideas are! I'd love to hear your comments though.

[Ghandi]

Thanks for the comment. But i have to say that i dont agree with most of your points. Your example of the Thieves guild who should be paid to retrieve their protection and that kills/assassinate others is more something for assassins. You say that most ppl know what are in that business. I think that most DON'T know who is in the syndicate and who's not. Only other mafia businesses know that..inside information and they want to keep it that way.

Thieves now are good traders. They are not as talkative as paladins about their achievements and therefor do not tell how they obtained certain items. They have it and you can buy it..no further questions asked. About the clothing...well maybe they just like leather. Nobody said it was black and if you see them at night, they could ask the same thing to you what you are doing at night. And i think a smart thief would not walk with his 'equipment' wide in sight.

About the assassin...you mention that after being close with the victim and assassinate him at the end, nobody would deal business him. Quite unlikely. If the assassin done his job well, he would taken out every witness and get rid of the bodies and evidence. That way no one should know what happened. With social with the victim i do not mean in long terms. More like joining a card game or giving him a free drink at a bar. That way you prevent you are shown with the victim in a obvious way to too many persons.

But even if the assassin works like you discribed and his deed is known to the world, i think criminal organisations certainly will hire his services and long as they have him on their side. Better on your own side then against you.

[Scorpion]

I really like much idea's which jagg described. Choosing a guild at a certain lvl and be a visitor before. Good idea.. much coding. Although barbarians should also be 'visitors' first. Then you choose to live the barbarian way and forget all about magic and loose you knowledge/mp. BUT, a little idea, a barbarian who didn't forget all of that. like barb shaman.
idea for RP for high lvls: you could try to convert much visitors to the evil side for example, to make your side even stronger.
Gossip in taverns.... good. Makes the world more living. But again... coding.. a lot.

About assassins. I think every assassin can work differently. You can choose to be a traitor, like becoming friends first, then kill later. YOu can also choose to sneak around the lands and see what your target likes to do/defeat much. Also asking his/her friends where (s)he might be could work, although risky.
And if you defeat someone, let's say in 1 bs, the victum couldn't see who it was. This way, you could even assassinate your closest friend without him knowing (offcourse the player knows....)

And thieves. thieves grouping with other thieves.. i see that rarely.. might be a good idea actually. About lock picking... i just call it the knowledge to open (ancient) locks to seek treasures (hehe). But a thief can also choose to let everyone know your a thief and everyone is affraid of you. Or you choose to find a cover for your thievery actions, like a trader for example.

My thoughts....

[jagg]

If the assassin done his job well, he would taken out every witness and get rid of the bodies and evidence. That way no one should know what happened.

Unfortunately this runs into the problem that deaths/defeats aren't the end of the matter. If a character knows who is attacknig them, a trip to limbo doesn't erase that memory.

How about if a successful backstab didn't reveal who has hit you (I assume it does?). That way, the victim of a one-hit kill wouldn't ever know who their unseen assailant was.

[Kampfer]

but if there is only one person online able to do a BS .. your character won't be that stupid.. or even the player.. like 1 + 1 = 2

I would say we need more new players.. we need some kind of publicity.. maybe updating the text on mudconnector. something like that